Tonight's Angel

[stakebait]

I liked it. I didn't love it.

Cool parts: the ambiguity on Cordy waking up when she did, making it unclear, at least to me, whether Angel was supposed to be off-track in saying yes to Wolfram and Hart or in saying he was going to quit. Or possibly, it now appears in retrospect, both.

Wes looking, well, hot, but more to the point lighter and more colorful in a way that was very reminiscent of the Jasmine arc. I can't believe that's an accident.

Cordy remembering Connor. Also, the hair. Cordy watching the Doyle commercial, which I know I've seen in fanfic but it still worked. Cordy being destracted from her rant by the view. "There are no people like us."

Wes doing his job. Look, he's knowing magic stuff! Doing research! Doing magic stuff! Good times! Not that he hasn't had other stuff to do and not that I'm opposed to him moving on, but I like the confirmation that it hasn't been forgotten he *can* do that stuff.

Cordy apology to Wes - and at least a little bit of filling in the blanks on when Jasmine supposedly took over. We still don't know when, but we do know it was before the ickybad sex now, yes? And we know that they do remember the Jasmine possession, and the whole Jasmine thing.

The interesting reflection of Wesley telling Cordy that they know it wasn't her when he refused to hear that from Fred after Billy. This was a whole episode of moments from the past coming back in new guises. It'd be funny if a) it really was Cordy back then or b) it wasn't really Cordy now, but the "she's dead" ending kinda foreclosed that option. ME does a lot of stuff, but I don't see them dicking around the people who've been waiting faithfully for her return.

More info on the mindwipe. I haven't entirely processed that yet -- need to read a transcript -- because mention of reality changing made it sound like it never happened, but Cordy's remembering and her reaction, which I so share and which Angel didn't dispute, made it sound like the memories were a separate issue and... I have to read it again. I don't get it yet, and I'm not going to pretend that I do. But more info on the mindwipe is a Good Thing, and Cordy (or any other person who remembered Connor and wasn't an enemy), is the right person for him to explain it to.

Also, they managed to drop the cue for the rest of them to pick up on it a way that makes sense. I'm not saying it was subtle, but a) Cordy is never subtle and b) she doesn't know why she'd have to be. Unlike Angel's prophecy Tourettes, I believe that would've happened just like it did.

Spike playing video games. Was. Adorable. These days I'm so deep in brain of Spike that I rarely think to react to him from the outside, but that was Just Too Cute. Love. Love love. Like Angelus in glasses levels of adorable. It's rehab. Of course it is. And I liked the amputation bonding: "I feel your pain" "at least half of it."

I liked that Spike was not in a funk and was ready to get back on the horse too.

Also adorable? "You said I was a hero?" Awh! Spike's all touched. And "can't risk someone I care about" "I'll come" "Okay". That reminded me of Angel telling Fred he wouldn't hurt anyone he cares about, and get out of his way.

The damned near canonicity of Eve saying to Lindsay "Angel's the center of your universe." And the total unconvincingness of his reply to the contrary. :) Canon. The slash is canon. That is practically word for word what Willow said to Buffy about Angel when he lost the soul. You're still all he thinks about. Apparently, huh?

Shades of Harry Potter on the trip downstairs. Spike/Ron stays behind to fight off the zombies -- and I love how into it he was. Cordy/Hermione makes with the Smart Thinking, and Angel/Harry saves the day by being himself and never giving up.

Cool laser web thingie. Cool knife to sword effect. Big phallic objects. Lindsay looking at Cordy as if she were an interloper. Lindsay loving the fight. Lindsay gets wirework too! They sell that at the airport! Fights on tall things! It's like Star Wars, only more naked and gayer.

"I'm Angel." Self-evident, yet cool. Beat up a tiny Texan. The concept of saving himself as one of the people who needs help, and Angel not getting it until his nose is rubbed in it.

Things I didn't love:

Angel going all the way to assuming Spike is the PTBs new favorite boy before he even knew about the supposed visions. Doubt I get. Conviction is a bit much.

The vision reveal was a total waste. Have Angel find out about the Doyle thing first, have a moment of hope that Doyle's back too and a moment of angst that Doyle went to Spike and not him, *that* can trigger his full-on "Spike's the hero, not me" without me feeling like it's overdone, and *then* have him find out that it's someone else using Doyle's name and be outraged. It could still all happen in one episode, just in a different order. Bleah. I hate it when all the ingredients of greater angst (of the right kind, not just for the fun of it) are right there but instead of making a pizza they make a tomato flour and cheese glop.

Lindsay's motivations. I'm grateful that we didn't get a big "reveal the evil plan Mr. Bond" speech, on the one hand, but on the other Angel and Lindsay were kind of friends when he left, and also Lindsay voluntarily gave up the big Wolfram and Hart promotion. So coming back with the chip on his shoulder that Angel got handed the thing he ... also got handed and turned down? Not so much with the sense making. If that's it for Lindsay, I'm a little let down. If it's not... well then cool. :)

The big Thing the Senior Partners kept locked down in the basement was a Make Lindsay Fight Good spell? Huh? Maybe I just didn't get it, but I didn't get it. I kept waiting for Lindsay's whole shtick to be a distraction until the real mojo kicked in. What were they gonna do if Lindsay hadn't shown up?

Cordy's inspirational speeches. There was nothing really *wrong* with them -- of course she'd wake up confused and annoyed by the changes, Angel *had* lost his way, of course she'd want to help Angel, I'll buy that she'd use her last favor on that and I guess I'll buy that the Powers owed her one for generally screwing her over (although in that case don't they owe Angel like a million?) It just didn't move me. Too close to Kyrumption on the one hand and Buffy Talks on the other. She had nice energy levels and I can't poke holes in the wording, but it was one person talking earnestly about Knowing the Right Path by supernatural means without much room for double meanings and I'm paralysed by not caring very much.

Which makes it sort of disappointing for me that this was Angel's big epiphany and route back to believing in himself. I'm happy he found it, but I wanted him finding it to be a process I could relate to. Instead of finding faith in his own internal moral compass, or in strengthening connections that he actually has in his life, he gets a Big Unambiguous Sign from the Powers and the Love of a Self Sacrificing Woman. Wow, it's like a season three flashback there for a minute. I really hope -- and trust, since it's February and not May -- that this is only the set up for an arc that takes us back into the grey and you're on your own place.

Also with the Angel/Cordy kiss. I'm happy for my shipper friends that they got their moment of closure and it didn't cheapen the relationship, but I never bought it, I still don't buy it, and the not-buying kind of flattened the affect on the whole final revelation for me. On the other hand, she's not coming back, which was the answer I wanted.

Angel blaming Spike for believing Lindsay when he himself did the exact same thing when the real Doyle showed up -- and for that matter, when Eve did. Not saying it's not in character and I realize it's a plot point to emphasize the continuing theme of who do you believe, but I was annoyed just the same. God knows there's plenty of times when Spike's earned that Pathological Idiot label, but on the question of what happens when a vampire with a soul meets a stranger with visions about wrongs for him to right, and the visions come true... perhaps Angel should spend a little private time comparing his pot to his kettle.

Spike thinking that he had a destiny, with the implication that of course he doesn't. There was a baby in that bathwater. Proving that Eve and Lindsay had an axe to grind doesn't change the fact that they're right about there being two vampires with souls now, and it's irritating to see Spike, as well as Angel, fall into the "it's all back to normal" place. No, no it isn't. Or at least, there's no logical reason for it to be. If it turns out it is and they all know that because, um, they read the script, I'll be irritated with the writers, but right now I'm going on the assumption that this is the characters being thick. Angel, who just had Cordy come back to life to restore his faith in himself and his chosen status, gets a pass. Spike should know better. Although I'm pleased that he seems as much relieved as anything else.

Them just letting Eve go. I could buy not bothering to chase her, but not so much seeing her off.

Overall -- good solid B+, maybe even A-, but not the hit 'em out of the park I was expecting.

And about the scenes from next week... the hell? Spike is a Nazi? Because he's been such a joiner in the past. Boy, it's a good thing out of a world of billions of people that you really do keep running into the same 6 over and over again. On a submarine. Or something.

Maybe it's a dream ballet. (If you know, don't tell me.)

Comments

[cheshyre]

Definitely agreed about the bungled Doyle reveal.
That's how I figured they were going to do it many episodes back.

Of course, now, they finished up major arc with a third of a season left to go. I was rather surprised at how quickly they tied it all up. Any guesses what minor backstory we've been ignoring is going to leap up and bite Angel Investigations on the butt for the rest of the season?

Re:

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* It's pretty classic ME format to deal with the Little Bad during Feb. Sweeps and bring the Big Bad in. (Are we in sweeps yet? I never know.)

I've been assuming -- and I'm still assuming -- that the Gang finding out about the mindwipe is going to be a Big Plot Point -- and quite possibly that their old memories are stored in the room of unexpected literalism, where Lorne's sleep was kept. And as far as Interpersonal Issues goes we've also got the continuing Buffy stuff for both Spike and Angel, though I'm not so sure that actually will get addressed. (Ditto with who gets the Destiny, if anyone.) And there's Gunn learning not to take candy from Evil Lawyers (or not).

There's the question of do they stay at W&H, and if so do they make changes, and if not what now? There's the question of whether Eve actually ever did work for the Senior Partners. And if she did and now no longer is, who are they going to send in her place? I'll cackle like a mofo if it turns out Lindsay comes down from another big silver hole in the ceiling with a good suit and a shit eating grin, and Angel has to put up with him making sexual innuendos all day and night.

Other loose plot threads: Angel's son is supposed to kill Sajahn, or however that's spelled, who's trapped in a jar but not actually dead. Of course, possibly the kid will just break a jar someday and never know why. :) Most of the other loose ends I can think of from previous seasons got tied up in Skip the Demon's "It's All Connected (New York Telephone) Speech, "We meant to do that" remix. Not that they *couldn't* resurrect one of those plotlines because he was certainly an unreliable narrator, but I tend to think they're hoping we don't remember them. From this season there's the arguably good cyborgs who wanted Angel for *something*.

Bad Slayers would've been a good Big Bad if they hadn't done it as a one-off. Ditto the New Council. But I tend to think it'll be an internal threat, because we've barely seen them leave the building all season. Unless, of course, the point is to get them back on the street and in touch with all the night people Angel was talking about in the Gem of Amarra episode.

If Eve Who Wants Revenge is the Big Bad, I will have to throw things and whimper.

The themes of this season seem to be "who do you trust/who do you believe", ambiguity/gray, which makes me think they'll bring Lilah back (and wouldn't that rock?) since she was the spokesperson for it, beware of all-or-nothing false choices, and isolation/disconnection/can't touch. All of which would actually apply well to the First Evil, but then I'd have to kill myself with the remote control. I suspect the big bad will reflect all that and then some, but I don't know what it could be.

Mer

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[halimede.livejournal.com]

If Eve Who Wants Revenge is the Big Bad, I will have to throw things and whimper.

You and me both, except if Harmony gets to torture her. A lot. Then I'm onboard. Because those two have wicked chemistry. And not just because Harmony was sooooooo into it (which she was), but Eve actually came alive too! {dreamy-femslashy-sigh}

[fernwithy.livejournal.com]

And about the scenes from next week... the hell? Spike is a Nazi? Because he's been such a joiner in the past. Boy, it's a good thing out of a world of billions of people that you really do keep running into the same 6 over and over again. On a submarine. Or something.

Well, Spike's an opportunist as a vampire, and I can see him taking advantage of the war to get victims (though not the helpless ones, since that would bore hell out of him). But on a sub? I'll second your... the hell? The victims would run out pretty fast. A sub would be a bad place for a vamp.

Which leads me to think that if he's on it, he has a reason. I sincerely doubt that it's because he believes in the Third Reich--he's not into the whole apocalypse thing--but it could be catching a ride somewhere (safe travel, no sunlight), or getting a piece of information in their possession, or doing something or other for Dru's sake. Physically, he's an Aryan ideal, so he could slip in and out easily and get whatever he wants from them. As much as my redemptionista heart would like to believe otherwise, he probably wouldn't have cared that much about the victims of the Nazis, so that wouldn't figure in his decisions.

Re:

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*nods* He wouldn't have cared about the victims. I kinda think he'd have contempt for the killers though -- stupid outfits, stupid mustaches, too much talking and orders, joining up like little Evil boy scouts. I don't read Spike as being much for organizations unless he's in charge, and even then not for long. Angel likes to be boss, Spike likes to do his own thing. I'm sure the cattle cars made a convenient snack, but not a cause to ally himself with. Yeah, could be easy transport I guess. Or maybe it wasn't a sub. I seem to remember a tie-in novel that had him and Dru on a sub back then at some point, so maybe I made a logic leap that wasn't supported by the text. We'll see.

Re:

[herself_nyc]

Maybe they were reading Anna S's Season Noir and they thought, "Oooh, cool, we'll do that, where Spike becomes an officer with the Nazi baddies but really he's just out for himself and also yeah, Buffy." Except not Buffy, but you know what I mean.

Actually, this promo made me laugh like a loon. It was just so damn EARNEST.

Also, there was a demon in the shot behind Spike. On the submarine.

Mwahahahahahahahahaha.

I'm gonna be chuckling all week, I know it.

[avram]

I just kept thinking that the episode was half-baked. OK, so Cordy has doubts about whether Angel is possibly drifting towards evil, and these doubts are dispelled when he beats up someone who was a threat? Don’t evil people do that too?

My impression was that Lindsey got his super-powers out in the world somewhere (that’s how he grew his hand back), and the big Thing in the basement didn’t actually get released because Cordy yanked that little thingie out. (And what was up with all that anyway? If I were sticking an Angel-killer in the basement, I wouldn’t want it to have to rely on snipping off a bit of some guy’s neck to make it work.)

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[stakebait.livejournal.com]

I think the end was meant to say that Cordy never had doubts, she just knew that Angel had doubts and that the best way to cure them was to get him back to his roots, the stuff he likes and understands, which is to say kicking the shit out of somebody he knows is evil. And now that he's centered in his sense of efficacy he can go out and kick the butt of everything else.

Lindsay got his hand back on the show. (I just had to look this up for my Book of Days fic, which incidentally is Jossed to hell and gone.) In a episode called, I believe, Dead End, in season 2. It turned out to have been a transplant from some poor guy who worked in the mailroom and had it cut off in the W&H evil parts harvesting lab. He and Angel reluctantly worked together to shut it down, and that's why Lindsay quit and went off to find himself, with Angel's blessing. It was a last straw kind of thing, at the time.

And he stopped being able to fight well as soon as Cordy yanked the piece out. So that might have been releasing the Thing, but it also seemed to have been powering Lindsay. But I agree completely about the neck snipping. Unless the neck guy *was* the thing that lived in the basement, but then I'm back to what was all the gadgetry for? Was he going to snip his own neck?

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[chaos-wrangler.livejournal.com]

It looked to me like the bit o' rock came off a chain around the guy's neck, as if he'd been wearing it the the way some people wear their IDs, key cards, etc.

Re:

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see. That makes sense, I guess. Demon guy being the anti-Angel wrangler.

[reannon.livejournal.com]

I think the Big Thing the senior partners put in the basement was whatever was scraping its tentacles against that round cage rising up out of the basement, not Lindsay. I think it was about to open up, but Cordelia stopped it by removing what was obviously a chunk of rose quartz. Which, by the way, is supposed to attract feelings of love and devotion to the bearer, which is either an M.E. gag or I'm reading way too much into a little chunk of rock.

Which also would mean that they still have a potential Bad in the basement that eats Angels. Mmm mmm good. P.S. What did Cordy do with said rock?

Memo to Angel: Kill. Eve. Now. Love, Reannon. *headdesk*

Okay, I know I just joined this series this year. And I should know that Whedon is, after all, the Devil. But I so did not see the end coming. As a strict Spuffangelist (I just made that up), I am squicked by Angel and Cordelia kissing. Also by Cordelia talking without the Valley Girl vocabulary, since the last time I saw her was "Graduation Day," but I'm catching up on reruns. And since we're playing havoc with reality, did everyone see the Ghost of Cordelia, or just Angel? I might add that the Ghost of Cordelia removes my major reality-check with this episode, which was how a woman who's been a coma for months can be walking and jumping and fighting without so much as a stretch. Except Spike tasted her? He can taste ghosts?

Also, I'm disappointed. Because honestly, I always wanted to see Xander and Cordelia make up. I'm just sick that way. I liked them together, better than Xanya by far. I wonder if it'll hit Xander hard when he hears Cordy's dead? He did, after all, love her for a while and nearly get her killed in "Lover's Walk."

Of course, in the Buffyverse, nobody dies forever.

Re:

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

I don't think she was a ghost. I think she was real for a little while. And I think everyone saw her, since Wes and Lindsay and all interacted with her and she was able to touch stuff.

Those were tentacles and not blurred arms and me not getting the blocking? Okay that makes more sense. Yay for a specifically Angel-eater in the basement. I wonder if it likes guilt or what?

Dunno what she did with the rock. Good question.

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[reannon.livejournal.com]

Yep, it's a beastie specifically attracted to tall, dark and brooding. A BroodyBeast. Angst-Eater. GuiltGila. MiseryMammoth.

Of course, I personally am attracted to tall, dark and brooding, but I lack the tentacles for Broody McLurk, Mayor of Broodytown.

Re:

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

My first thought was that the Containment Thingie would open and out would come Connor. Or possibly Dru. Someone who looks small and like they couldn't possibly need containing. But that wouldn't explain tentacles, unless Dru has a new pet.

Re:

[owdbetts.livejournal.com]

Having just re-watched the ep, I think there was definitely something inside The Thing That Was Rising Up From The Ground.

Whether it had tentacles or not, I wouldn't like to say; it seemed fairly indistinct to me...

As for the key around the neck thing; I assume his job was to active the failsafe device himself, should the need arise. The SPs presumably never expected anyone would be able to get to him, given he was protected by an army of zombies. A bit careless of the SPs, though; you'd have thought that the SPs wouldn't have been surprised by team AI managing to survive an attack by a dozen zombies; I'm sure none of us viewers were...

-roy

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

Which makes it sort of disappointing for me that this was Angel's big epiphany and route back to believing in himself.

Because it's an epiphany that's going to lead him merrily down the path to hell.

The whole thing was a lie. The real Cordy never got out of her coma. It's all a fantasy - this Mary Sue - perfect version of Cordy who has perfect relationships with everyone we're supposed to love, who hates everyone we're supposed to hate, thinks of Spike as little more than an afterthought - just like Angel and Wes would prefer to do.

This is all about Wes and Angel and the MoG seeing a fantasy to cling to, to make them think they can be their little boutique in the belly of Wolfram & Hart and not feel real conflict about it.

I expect this to turn out to be the biggest fake out of all time, and if so, it'd be brilliant.

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[oneminutemonkey.livejournal.com]

. . .

Fuck.

I think you've called it. Angel decides to quit, Cordy wakes up, they all run around and defeat Eve and Lindsey...

It works in my head.

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[herself_nyc]

This makes tremendous sense. I think you're right. By getting him "back on track" this Cordy emanation has made sure he continues to veer way off.

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[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. That would be lovely! I'd been assuming they wouldn't do that because of the Cordy fans who would take that as a fuck you. But I'd be more than pleased to be proven wrong.

Mer

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[dlgood.livejournal.com]

Well the "Cordy Fans" have had a big FU ever since S3. I can very much see this episode as the big love letter to them, so they'll be all excepting when it's exposed as a lie.

Because they'll always have this Perfect Version of Cordy to hang onto, and ME has never written a character so idealized as she was in this episode.

[behindblue-eyes.livejournal.com]

It's like Star Wars, only more naked and gayer.

*spit-takes*
*wipes down monitor*

I love you.

Re:

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Hee! ::tips hat:: Then my work here is done. :)

[dcart.livejournal.com]

This was the only episode where I ever bought that Cordy felt the same way about Angel as he had felt about her and yet his feelings for her seemed awfully muted this time. Odd.

Re:

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*nods* I still didn't buy it, but I agree she sold it more than previously. I think maybe he was still trying to deal with her *second* coming back from unreachably far away? If he's grieved and got over it, having to un-get-over it could really throw a man, for all he's done this once before with Buffy.

[http://users.livejournal.com/belladonna_/]

Nice review. :)

"I'm Angel." Self-evident, yet cool.

To me, this was an echo of "Becoming Pt. 2":

Angelus: Now that's everything, huh? No weapons... No friends... No hope. Take all that away... and what's left?
Buffy: Me.

only without the emotional impact. It didn't have the same feeling of re-affirmation of self that the Buffy moment did. Maybe it's because SMG is a better actor, but honestly, I don't think Angel's hit rock bottom enough to have a total "I'm okay" moment yet. And getting back to himself? He's always hated himself. That's the root of the character, self-loathing. And it kinda has to be that way. Angel shopping for towels or picking out a really good cantaloupe is mecha-boring. We need angsty Angel!! :)

Re:

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Thanks! And I agree. But don't worry. It's only early February. They're setting him up for a fall. (I'm not spoiled, just confident that I've met this show before.)

[sdelmonte]

1. Any qualms you may have with this episode may be attributed to the following words:

Written and Directed by David Fury.

2. Personally, I loved this episode, even though I will agree completely that the return of Lindsey was way too quick, and left too much unresolved. Was he indeed the one who brought back Spike? If so, why? And why did Angel let "Lilah Jr." leave alive?

3. I was thrilled to see the true Cordy one last time. Which is to say, witchy, still materialistic, big-hearted, unsubtle Cordelia Chase. I've missed her. The show has missed her. Who would have ever thought that anyone would ever care about her given what we saw of her waay back in Buffy season 1? If Ms. Carpenter was really fired, Joss may have made a rare but silly mistake. I am also glad she got a suitable ending.

4. I like that Cordy was the clue-by-four to get Angel to clear his head. Yes, it was a little bit too "Angel Gets His Strings Pulled," but I worked for me because sometimes we really need to have a friend drag us back to reality. Then again, though, I also liked the similar speech Riley gave Buffy in the somewhat similar episode where he came back just long enough to tie things up. I hope, though, that Angel really takes this to hart, as Buffy didn't back then.

5. A lot of great moments: Harmony beating up Eve; "your epidermis is showing"; "you have hair"; Spike receding to the background a bit but making the most of his scenes; the gang, Spike included, going off for drinks.

6. Next week looks like yet another effort to fill in every blank in Angel and Spike's lives. After the last three weeks of seeing arc and plot and character advance, this will be a bit of a screeching halt, methinks. Just so long as the crew of the submarine doens't include Giles' father, Wesley's uncle, and Xander's grandfather.

Re:

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Written and directed by...

That explains a lot, thanks.

Fury is not a subtle man. He likes to simple up everything that everyone I resonate with is carefully complicating. There's nothing wrong with the bones of his stories & he's capable of good dialogue, but as soon as a single character gets more than two sentencea in a row without an interruption, he loses me. And they do that a lot. I almost always come out of his eps annoyed & alienated, like somebody's been elbowing me in the ribs and saying "get it?"

I think that's also because he's Into the Specialness -- the Chosen One stuff. Much as I like "there are no people like us", I liked it as a wry comment. I don't like it as The Point. I didn't like the Champion idea, I don't like people to be too sure of their destinies in any direction, good or bad. I bought it on Buffy because she paid for it in blood, but I don't need to see it again, and I especially don't need unshakeable confidence in one's Chosen status to be the "right" road.

I'm never gonna relate to that, because in my experience it's the people who doubt and question who are trustworthy. The people who Know are scary. Connor killed an innocent girl because Evil!Cordy convinced him they were special, unique, worth more. Now I'm seeing Good!Cordy convincing Angel of the same thing, and even though there's no spray of blood across his cheek, it still makes me uncomfortable.

Also I hated the speech Riley gave to Buffy. I think my problem is not with "one's friends have to yank one back to reality", which I do agree with. I never minded the various Interventions on Buffy, with the exception of Xander's "no really Riley is The One" speech, because I didn't see why he thought so.

That's part of my problem here. I don't really believe in this reality, so seeing a friend trying to yank him back into it, much like seeing Xander trying to prolong Buffy/Riley, is frustrating. They've almost managed to tug themselves out of the quicksand, don't push them back in! I've been seeing Angel's struggles this season as the birthpangs of the next stage of his journey, giving up the crutch of relying on supernatural validation to know he's doing the right thing. If I'm gonna spend this much time watching him fall, I don't just want him to get the crutch back, I want to see him walk on his own.

But my other problem is "one's friends who have been gone for a really long time show up and explain how one has gone Off The Path by changing since then." When I remeet a friend after a long absence who's clearly gone through a lot in the meantime, I don't assume I instantly see all the changes, understand the reasons for them, and am prepared to pass judgement on them without having been there for any of the circumstances. I think that's a) obnoxious but more to the point b) likely to be wrong or uselessly right because oversimplified.

Yes, someone coming back can certainly notice and call attention to a change that happened too slowly for the people who see you every day to be aware of it. But there's a difference between going "you got skinny, what happened?" and "let me now deliver a lecture on what's different about you as if I know you better than anyone else, instead of relearning the person you've become."

It seems to imply that you start out most yourself and then the process of change is one of adulteration, so that the people who knew you first know you best. I've got real problems with that model. I believe in growth and becoming more yourself. Not that you can never take a misstep, but the last person who'd know that is someone who doesn't have context and liked you the way you used to be.

Re: Cordy... my mileage varies. I agree it was nice to have our last image of her revert to a more sympathetic version. And I think the show missed her in season 3-4, when she was still there but sucking energy instead of adding it. I'm not sure if it was Charisma or the writers or obth who were to blame for that, but it so used up the limited amount of caring I'd developed in ATS seasons 1-2 that by now I don't miss her at all. I'm glad she's gone.

Just so long as the crew of the submarine doens't include Giles' father, Wesley's uncle, and Xander's grandfather.

Hee!

[soundingsea.livejournal.com]

My take on the mindwipe - Everything happened as we saw it on screen. The "reality alteration" was the Dawn-like insertion of Connor into that family. The memories of last year were Connor-wiped and leave people with a Ben/Glory style "don't talk about it".

Also, I so don't trust the Vorlons, I mean, the PTB. Cordy puts Angel back on track. Really? And everything is fine now? Doubtful.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Vorlons. Interesting comparison. You could well be right. And your take on the mindwipe stuff makes sense. Thanks!

Mer

[porpentine.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about this since last night, some. Most of it, I agree with -- Solid episode, not one of the best, most of of my problems I can point to the Written and Directed by... line to explain.

But we get to The Kiss (tm) -- and it didn't bother me all that much, or seem that out of character. Mostly, I think, because for me it echoed Season 3 of Buffy, and Cordy's other big "kiss the guy" moment. You know, with Wesley. And we all know how well THAT turned out.

So, see, Angel kisses the girl, gets it out of his system, and can go back to oggling Spike when no one's watching. It all makes sense.

(Oh, and thank you very much, I had to try not to choke to death laughing over the Star Wars comment. "only more naked and gayer,", indeed. Teach me to drink while reading these things :))

Re:

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Mostly, I think, because for me it echoed Season 3 of Buffy, and Cordy's other big "kiss the guy" moment. You know, with Wesley. And we all know how well THAT turned out.

Heh, okay, good point. :)

I have NO sympathy with you on the drinking thing. Only pride. [makes another notch on belt]

Mer

PTB = Senior Partners?

[drcpunk.livejournal.com]

If we go by the explanation that the Senior Partners used Cordelia to keep Angel from walking out, and we also buy that Cordelia's visions at the beginning were genuine, and that she believed what she was saying -- well, as mnemex asked, might the PTB be the Senior Partners?

Re: PTB = Senior Partners?

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

I've always thought so. We'll see if the show's willing to commit to that.

Spinning wheels

[drcpunk.livejournal.com]

One thing I don't like, in Angel and in other things, is when I get a sense of wheels spinning in mud. Angel doubts himself, and is starting to be okay by the end of the episode. Again. And again. And again. After the wonderful Mexican Wrestler episode, I wish they'd have stopped that.

Much like Buffy promised to be better to Dawn and ignored her, lather, rinse, repeat.

Re: Spinning wheels

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*nods* I can see that. Though it didn't bother me because I read the early ones more as "Angel starts to be aware of the problem" than "Angel's starting to find a solution".

Mer