(no subject)

[stakebait]

So as a writer I have a serious problem. I don't write. More specifically, I don't finish. Not including fanfic, class assignments, co-writing, the non-fiction I do for work or by request, porn, or poems and other stuff short enough to finish in the first initial burst of enthusiasm, I've finished a grand total of three short stories and a children's manuscript.

I've deleted all the stuff about what I thought the problem was but turned out not to be because really, you don't care. I don't even care, and it's my problem. Suffice it to say it's not writer's block in the usual sense. it's not lack of time, it's not lack of ability to structure a story, or to wing one, or even fear that people will think that it's no good. I may have those things too, but that's not It right now.

I was reading The Forest For the Trees, An Editor's Advice to Writers, by Betsy Lerner. It's a good book because it's not how to write, it's how to handle everything else about being a writer, including why people who want to write don't. There's a line in there that says "are you waiting for your parents to die?" I teared up, put the book down, and didn't pick it up again for weeks.

So that was a clue.

Clue two was talking to dotsomething, and realizing that I'm not afraid of my writing being judged, I'm afraid of being judged for writing -- as if that were inherently presumptuous, regardless of the quality of the result. I'm not half as afraid that no one will notice as I am that someone might.

Clue three was that, what with turning 30, I started putting the pressure on myself to change this. You can't coast on your potential forever, Mer, I says to myself. So I decided to write a couple stories to anthology specifications and send them off. And lo and behold, it was easy. Not effortless, of course. But no harder than fanfic. Huh, says I. What do all these things have in common?

Somebody else asked for them. Explicitly, as with homework, regular work, Iron Author, ficathons, or anthologies: write this now. Or implicitly, 'cause there's a pre-existing demand for Buffy fanfic from people who like Buffy. Ditto porn.

Apparently in my brain, it's okay to write something if I'm fulfilling someone else's needs by doing so. But it's not okay to just write and assume (or even hope) that an audience will come.

I always knew I wasn't one of the "I write for myself" people -- I respect that, but I never got it emotionally. I have to have an audience, at least in my head, or why I am bothering to write it down at all? I already know what happens. But I didn't know this piece, about how it has to be something the audience already wants. It doesn't have to be a big audience. One person is plenty. They don't have to send feedback. It's not about getting a response. It's about whether I'm entitled to write, and in my head the answer is, only if it's for somebody else. Hell, I've been thinking about this for a couple of months now, but I'm only writing it out now because msagara said she wanted to read it.

So if it's not for someone else, I start out in a great burst of enthusiasm because I have the coolest idea... and as soon as it wears off it's supplanted by dread, and I never even open the file again.

Fucked up, no? It's not like we're rationing the alphabet. And this is where it gets all therapy speak, because now that I know this, I know exactly where it comes from. My father is a narcissist, I grew up believing that it was my job to take care of other people and not okay for me to have wants and needs. Even just the fact of having a point of view of my own was an offense, though one I never did figure out how to avoid.

I've been through this before. I've talked before (in a locked post, if you missed it that's why) about how I think this influenced my submissive sexuality. I don't particularly want to go there now. I know I've dealt with this re: not letting myself get drained by other people's crises. This is not a new dynamic for me. So how the HELL did I miss that it was what's been damming (I wrote damning first, it seems equally appropriate) up the writing all these years?

The one story I finished that WASN'T to anthology specs? Was a time travel piece about a guy who feels guilty all the time, lacks a single point of view of his own, and the story plays with changing point of view right in it. And that was over a year ago. Did I know what it was about? Of course not. But in retrospect it's so obvious I could cry. I hereby renounce any claim to being remotely intelligent.

So now what? Okay, I slog and slog and slog in therapy and give up my hopes that perhaps we were finally nearing the end. Got that piece, and lord knows I've had practice. But if at all possible I'd really like not to wait until I achieve sanity before I get anything on paper. If only because at that point I'll have so many story ideas it'll take me forever to dig out of the hole.

I discovered, thanks to buffybot, that if a particular person asks me to finish something because they want to read it, that's enough, at least for a short piece. (That's how I got The Middle Prince finished.) But only if they specifically want to read that specific story. A general desire for me to accomplish stuff? Deeply appreciated, but for justification purposes, useless. I suspect I can scare up enough people who really want to read Broken Glass Slippers to make the experiment as to whether this is enough to get me through a novel draft. But even if it is, it seems like a heavy burden to impose on my friends.

Help me out here, anyone? How do you get to a place where you can tell a story without knowing someone's listening?

Comments

[copperwise.livejournal.com]

LOL. You could be writing about me. Almost everything I've finished has happened because I knew there was someone I knew personally who'd want to read it.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Hee! Good to know I'm not alone, although I wish for your sake that I were.

[eac.livejournal.com]

I teared up, put the book down, and didn't pick it up again for weeks.

Oh, *hug*, Mer.

Also, I've no help for you, but I hope that seeing this helps with your writing....

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

The *hug* means a lot, so thanks.

I hope so too.

And I feel like I should clear poor MerMom's sort-of-name. Lerner wrote "parents" in the plural, but I can't imagine any of this would have been a problem if it were up to her.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Did I know what it was about? Of course not. But in retrospect it's so obvious I could cry. I hereby renounce any claim to being remotely intelligent.
--

It's not about intelligence, sweetie. NO ONE sees their own stuff, no matter how obvious it seems in retrospect, or to our friends. This is why therapists get the big bucks. ;}

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Yah, you're right, I know. And thank luck I got me a real good one. I just get frustrated when not all my supposed insight *and* good instincts *and* intellect helps me recognize the exact same problem that I'VE ALREADY BEEN THROUGH AT LEAST THREE TIMES. I've been in therapy almost half my life! If I'm not going to be done soon, could I at least get BETTER at it?

Pardon me, sometimes I have to faux-scream.

[terri-osborne.livejournal.com]

If I find out, Mer, I'll let you know.

FWIW, I have the same problem. Writing my original stuff is making me crazier right now, it's so problematic. I then find myself looking for distractions, like waiting on and hoping for Trek stories to get through, rennovating the home office, you name it, I've thought of it instead of writing in the last month or so.

*hugs*

We'll figure this out. Somehow.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*big hugs* Boy, there are more of us than I had any idea, huh? And thanks. If I figure it out, I'll do the same for you.

I'm waiting on word about a vampire story and the time travel one right now myself. But I really need to quit waiting and write the next one in the meantime. Not even counting the novels, I've got about four shorts in the queue -- so naturally I'm posting to LiveJournal.

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

Is this where I request that you eat, just to be on the safe side? 'cause I don't want you not eating, drinking, or breathing just because nobody asked you to.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Hee! Apparently I've got the eating covered, but thanks for erring on the side of caution.

Gah, I'm tired of being fucked up. Can I give Tara's sweet little "can we just skip this" speech to my brain?

[lynnenne]

How do you get to a place where you can tell a story without knowing someone's listening?

I don't know the answer to this, 'cause I struggle with similar issues. But there might be a way to turn your current work pattern to your advantage.

I used to be a journalist. My whole working life has revolved around deadlines. Even now that I'm not in the trade any more, I can't get anything done without a deadline. I put it off and put it off until my boss yells at me and says, "Where's that marketing plan we talked about last winter?" Well, yeah, we talked about it, but you didn't give me a date to finish it by, so I didn't think it was a priority. Then my boss says, "I need it on my desk tomorrow!" and I kill myself staying up all night working on it. This could just be attributed to bad time management on my part. But the truth is, I never *care* about stuff until someone *else* says "I need it by this date." I don't worry about my own poor performance. I worry about disappointing my editor/producer/manager. I do it more for them than myself. (Incidentally, my boss is also my brother, which is why I haven't been fired yet. *g*)

If you need some external motivation to write, like I do, it's not hard to find it. Whenever you get an idea for a story, tell someone about it. Right away, before the excitement wears off. Tell a friend, e-mail a co-worker, post it on LJ. Find anyone who's willing to say, "Yeah, that's a cool idea. I'd read that for sure!" Then tell them to check back with you every two weeks or so, asking if you're writing it. Tell them to keep kicking your ass until you get it done. It'll add some external pressure to your life, but it'll work. Honest.

I can completely sympathize with your situation. I've also spent my life struggling with a scary past, and at 38, I still haven't exorcised all my ghosts. If you wait until you're completely healed start writing, you may never get there. I haven't. You just have to learn to work with what you have.

And if you need someone to kick your ass on a regular basis, I'd volunteer. 'Cause your writing? KICKS ASS! *hugs*

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*hugs* Thanks. A lot, seriously. I just might do. I'll poke at it, anyway, and try to figure out what makes me think "motivation" versus what makes me think "additional dread", since lord knows logic seems to have little to do with it.

Deepa's already kindly volunteered for the nagging duties, but it's good to have more help to call on if needed. :)

[ladymondegreen.livejournal.com]

Someone is always listening. That's the secret.

There's a song by the Indigo Girls about a girl's experience of reading Virginia Woolf. The song says "You sent your soul like a message in a bottle to me, and it was my rebirth."

There will always be a reader. Whether it is the audience that will appreciate it on publication, or your literary executor who sits crying and wondering why you didn't write more, someone will always read you.

Unless you don't write. And I am not one to talk, having stalled out on the novel I've been working on these many years. On the other hand, I am starting to get some momentum back, and I think you are too, because you're considering why it is that you do this to yourself.

The point I haven't touched on above is this. You are your first audience, if it makes you laugh or cry, it is a success. Even if you never share it. You are your audience, and a worthy one. If you have to write for someone, and you feel there is no one else, write for your future self.

*hugs*
LMG

[dotsomething.livejournal.com]

You are your first audience, if it makes you laugh or cry, it is a success.

That is an excellent thought. *makes a copy for her own brain*

[ohimesamamama.livejournal.com]

I oddly feel for you because I have a similar problem from the exact opposite direction. I can't finish anything either -- not because there's no audience, but because there IS. The minute someone wants to read my fiction or wants me to continue it, or the minute it's so much as touched by a beta reader/editor, it's dead in the water. Much as you can revive your impulse to write by having just one person who wants to read it, I can kill any idea I have by having anyone else look at it before I've completely finished. So I don't know precisely how this feels, but at the same time, I know just what this kind of mental block feels like.

I think, however, you've already stated what you need, and what you're saying you need -- enthusiastic readers of specific projects -- is not...wrong, or a heavy burden. Just to be straight: You're worried that asking your friends or loved ones to scare up enthusiasm for your drafts of individual projects, to play that audience that really wants to read what you write, is somehow too much to ask for them? Given your perspective on writing at all, and whether you deserve to write, I can see why you would consider it that way; you admit you're caught in the bind of being programmed to think you need to take care of other people first, and feeling like your own viewpoint and wants are not as important.

But maybe the most important first step you can take is to try to convince yourself that your friends' enthusiasm for your projects might not be a selfish burden you're asking them to take on, but might be a gift you can give other people that will make them happy. It might be worth offering to people in that mental light, and thinking of their support of your writing like that, rather than having to keep yourself in check to the point that, not only can you not write unless it's for someone, but you can't even ask someone to want what you're writing so you can get some writing done. And there's really no shame in needing something in your life or mental worldview to get your writing done.

It may be a crutch to ask for people to want what you write, but sometimes we need to go on crutches to heal and get to where we want to be.

I really hope this helps, or at least doesn't offend you horribly and make you want to box me about the ears for suggesting it. :D

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Wow.

Hi, can we average? How incredibly useful would that be?

And yes, I feel the same way, now that you've explained your thing -- I don't get it, and yet, I totally get it.

you've already stated what you need, and what you're saying you need -- enthusiastic readers of specific projects -- is not...wrong, or a heavy burden.

Um, yeah, did I mention I have a problem with that? *wry grin* Just the stating feels like I've gone way beyond the pale. Actual asking? Arrgh. Maybe I could just take up a nice self-sufficient hobby, like meditation.

You're worried that asking your friends or loved ones to scare up enthusiasm for your drafts of individual projects, to play that audience that really wants to read what you write, is somehow too much to ask for them?

Well, yeah. Plus if they're scaring it up for my sake -- it's not gonna work. I'll just end up feeling more guilty and also doubting their sincerity/credibility as a source of critique. I don't ever want anyone to tell me they like something one iota better than they actually do, or to say they want to read something unless they really really do, and would even if they didn't love me.

But maybe the most important first step you can take is to try to convince yourself that your friends' enthusiasm for your projects might not be a selfish burden you're asking them to take on, but might be a gift you can give other people that will make them happy.

*blink* Um, yeah. I'll try. It's the asking part that's screwing me up. I didn't feel selfish when BB told me I'd better finish The Middle Prince, because I knew she didn't mean "I'm trying to be supportive, honey", she meant "dammit, I don't want your silly issues getting in the way of me reading this story." Which is cool. If my friends have spontaneous enthusiasm for my projects then there we are. But the act of asking seems to undo the permission of them wanting it.

Did that make any sense outside my head? I'm not sure it even made sense in it.

there's really no shame in needing something in your life or mental worldview to get your writing done.

Heh. If I could believe that emotionally, we'd be there already. I could a) have needs and b) have my writing be something that's worth doing for its own sake.

It may be a crutch to ask for people to want what you write, but sometimes we need to go on crutches to heal and get to where we want to be.

Yeah. Yeah, that. Sigh. At this point I'm still trying to figure out how to walk with the crutch. I'll worry about walking without it later.

And no, there shall be no ear boxing. I am not offended. I think this a very sensible plan, but I fear I may need even smaller steps to get even this far.

[dotsomething.livejournal.com]

That makes sense, the guilt thing. Sounds familiar, maybe I've got a guilt complex about it too. Hopefully recognizing it will be a step to overcoming it, but just recognizing the problem doesn't = problem solved.

Do consider, though, that people sometimes do what they need to do--if you need to write short pieces, fanfic, that others request, maybe that's just where you are right now. Work towards getting beyond that, but don't berate yourself for being *there*, because maybe *there* is you percolating your writing skills (I know, 30, tell me about it but age has nothing to do with being ready to write). Of course, 20 years from now it wouldn't be great to not have moved forward.

But if at all possible I'd really like not to wait until I achieve sanity before I get anything on paper.

I read in some writing book somewhere, that people tell themselves, "I'll write when ****** is done," but we should write right now and stop waiting for thus-and-such to be settled to do it. Which is easier said than done. I have literally found myself staring at my notebook thinking, "Okay, self, now WRITE. *pause* Yup, I'm going to write something. *pause* Right now. This is me, about to write something..." and nothing comes out.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Sounds familiar, maybe I've got a guilt complex about it too.

Maybe -- anyway I'm happy to chat and/or listen if you want to noodle about it at some point.

Hopefully recognizing it will be a step to overcoming it, but just recognizing the problem doesn't = problem solved.

You're right, of course. But if only it were. Remember GI Joe, "Knowing is half the battle?" I always used to answer "but what good's half a battle?"

I have literally found myself staring at my notebook thinking, "Okay, self, now WRITE. *pause* Yup, I'm going to write something. *pause* Right now. This is me, about to write something..." and nothing comes out.

Oh, sweetie. I'm sorry. *hug*

I guess demonstrably this is where I am right now. It's just not where I want to be. It feels a lot like getting stuck in Queens when the subway flooded. It's a nice place to visit, and it looks like a nice place to live if you live there, but it's a lousy place to be stranded on your way to someplace else.

Part of the frustration I guess is that it feels so irrelevant to writing skills. I mean, if I'm just not up to tackling a novel yet, fine. More than fine. Bloody brilliant. Lemme stick with the training wheels until I won't make a hash of it. Percolate away. But this is just stupid personality stuff. Issues. It's not *important*, not like mastering POV or learning to outline. I don't usually mind my feelings, but I mind when they get in the way of what matters.

[kradical.livejournal.com]

There's an aspect of this that you don't mention, but can be a part of it as well. It isn't just that you write things that other people want to see -- you write things with a deadline. You could simply be one of those writers (I know, because I'm often one of them, and I live with another one) who needs the focusing power of the deadline to make you finish it.

Something to think about, anyhow.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*nods* Good point. I will think about it, thanks. Though how to get a deadline that feels real for something that nobody in particular wants to see may be a chicken and egg sort of problem.

[porpentine.livejournal.com]

Most people have said much of what I'd say. I can relate in a way myself...it's not quite the lack of audience that stops be, but definite inclinations of 'no one would want to read this tripe.' I know, in my head, in my heart, that I write well. I do damn good documentation and general business communication. The moment it's fiction, though, and I utterly freeze. It's sad, really.

So since most of it's covered, I'll toss this out. I know, I think, hints of what Broken Glass Slippers is. And I honestly, truly, really want to read it someday.

Audience of one, and hugs in general, are the slim pickings I have to offer.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Those aren't slim pickings. Those are good things to have.

I can't imagine that it's tripe. I've never read any of your fiction, I know, but I *have* read your journal, and you're good at this putting words together stuff.

[vylit.livejournal.com]

I suspect I can scare up enough people who really want to read Broken Glass Slippers to make the experiment as to whether this is enough to get me through a novel draft. But even if it is, it seems like a heavy burden to impose on my friends.

I really don't think it is. One, you write excellent fic, so it's not like your friends have to make a sacrifice in order to encourage you. OTOH, for your own peace of mind or creative flow, it'd probably be better if you were able to write without needing that kind of encouragement. However, until that happens, you should let someone/a group of people know when you need that extra push.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*nods* Thanks. That seems to be the consensus.

[estepheia.livejournal.com]

There's a line in there that says "are you waiting for your parents to die?" I teared up, put the book down, and didn't pick it up again for weeks.
My father is very ill. Maybe that's why I can't write these days? Sounds like an interesting book, but is it actually helpful?

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*hugs* Entirely possible.

I found it helpful, obviously, but I don't think you can count on an epiphany. *grin* Apart from that, it depends what you want help with. I think it's a good book for people trying to make the transition from writing as a hobby to writing as a business, because it explains a lot of the "but what is it like and how is it done" stuff. If you already know that stuff, or don't care, or aren't up to that right now, then maybe not so much.

[mintwitch.livejournal.com]

I don't know the answer to any of this. I have a different kind of writer's block; this post struck me because sometimes I forget that not all writers have the same problems and I just wanted to say something vaguely supportive. So, that was it. You'll figure it out, I've got faith in you.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Heh. And thanks.

[dodyskin.livejournal.com]

Sweetness! *clasps you to my heaving bosom, dramatically but sincerely*

This is such a (to me) brave post. Having grown up, um, in therapy, I can talk and talk and talk about my feelings and motivations without ever really feeling them or learning from them. This is like proper talking! With truth an self-knowledge and learning! You may rock fairly hard.

I have the opposite sort of crazy. If I think anyone's listening, I just go blank. I have this push-pull after posting, wanting to have comments, (um, validation) but then getting totally freaked out by having to acknowledge them. I hate replying to feedback. I try to twist the conversation round to summat else. Which is stupid. And then if I get a lot of comments, I can't write anything! Which is stupider. The more people listen, the quieter I whisper, or I just run away. But if I don't get comments? Even worse. Seriously, I gave up art because I got a C, once. My first non-A ever, in anything, and I just quit. I secretly think that everyone who likes what I do is delusional. I also think that people who don't like it are delusional, and possibly baby-eaters.

Deadlines are no good for me at all. Expectation makes me cry. If I join a ficathon or something, I have to do it that day, or it will never get finished. If I make a vague promise to do something, something that no-one else even remembers? I'm up for three days straight beating myself with the Big Stick of Not Good-Enough. So I do nothing. I sit in my house and do wall to wall bugger all, because then at least I'm disappointing everybody straight off. OH THE PAIN OF IT ALL. ;)

In conclusion. I am no help at all. Except for it's worth saying about the audience thing, simply because it's very likely that your audience is wanting you to finish piece A or poem B, but is not wanting to pressure you.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Awh! *snuggles you*

It's a fine line between brave and "lacking appropriate privacy filters" -- I suspect this is more of the latter, but hey. I quarrel with no compliments, so thanks.

And *big hugs* to your dilemma. I wish I could help, but I have no useful suggestions for you.

Oh wait yes I do. Get a co-writer and make them respond to all the comments. That way the validation is there but the obligation is not. *g*

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

*Snuggles you*

I don't know if someone's already suggested this because I've only got through half the comments and I'm not quite awake, but would it help at all to think of yourself as a Storyteller instead of a Writer? There've been people telling stories and passing down myths and fables and history for more years than people have been writing books -- it's just that the oral part of the tradition doesn't really apply all that well anymore, I don't think.

*Blinks and needs coffee*

*May be insane*

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Nope, nobody else suggested that, and it's certainly something to ponder! Though I tend to think of storytellers as people like the Patient Creatures who can tell them aloud.

Thanks!

[m-phoenix.livejournal.com]

I sincerly wish I had something helpful to say, but I really don't as I'm in the, Gah, I'm tired of being fucked up. Can I give Tara's sweet little "can we just skip this" speech to my brain? state as well. ::hugs you::

I don't have exactly the same problem with writing as you do, mine has far more in common with what dodyskin just described in her comment. The more I succeed as a writer, the more I know people are listening and having expectations of me, the more I panic and blank out until I simply can't write at all. At the same time I crave the feedback and attention. In many ways success scares me way more than failure, I know where I am with failure *g* Oh, and I'm a perfectionist, which is just fatal, I spend hours agonizing over tiny things I doubt anyone else would even notice. I have the same problem with music and art. Completely pointless waste of time and energy. Sometimes I think it would be so much easier to give up and do something less stressful instead, but I love telling stories too much. All I want is to be in a state where I can actually relax and enjoy letting them flow.

But in spite of the problems I still believe that one day I'll actually be able to write that novel I have buzzing around in my head. Hell yeah.

Btw I love your writing and would be eager to read your original work.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*hugs* to you too. Mental and Bored With It, it's the new black. :)

Good luck getting that to work. I wish I had some more useful ideas to offer.

Would it help to give yourself permission to do a sucky first draft, and take out your perfectionism in revisions? Or is that where you get stalled?

What's the novel about, or shouldn't I ask? :)

And thank you.

[kate_nepveu]

If you need to know someone's listening, why not post locked drafts? I know someone (not on LJ) who's working on a contracted-for thing and posting password-protected bits, just because it's easier/better/more motivating/more fun to know there's an instant audience.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Huh. Interesting idea! I was afraid of posting something I'm trying to sell, lest they count that as prior publication, but I suppose if I locked it down to something a bit smaller than my 250+ friends list, it might be okay.

It wouldn't, by itself, solve the problem of "meeting someone's needs", but if I asked who wanted to be on the filter, and people said yes, that might do... definitely some good stuff here to poke at, so thanks a ton.

Mer

[roseveare.livejournal.com]

Oh, ow, some of this is familiar. I hope you find a way around it. I think I could do it once, but fanfic has spoiled me with an audience, and I haven't figured out how to work around that either.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*twisted smile* Thanks. I hope you find a way too. You might try scrolling the comments if you have time -- several people have suggested possible solutions, or at least work-arounds.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Yay! I was helpful! Helpful to someone else is exactly what my writing needs to be to avoid feeling hopelessly self-indulgent, so you've made my afternoon.

You certainly don't have to be a close personal friend to count as an audience. Actually in some ways it's better if you're not, since that cuts down on the chance that you've got a motivation to lie to make me feel better. :)

For me asking doesn't negate the validity of the support, exactly. It just puts it into the category of "friend supporting me". Which is certainly valid, but does not make me feel *less* selfish. What I really find helpful is people saying "I don't give a crap about how you feel, I need to know how it ends!" Give the story an importance to them independent of me and my problematic ego.

The issue is more than you might not *know* enough about any of my projects to honestly have a desire to read it in particular, since I'm a bit wary of spouting off about them in public if I'm going to try to sell them. But if I end up talking more about them on LJ, as someone suggested, that would solve that problem. Or I could always bug you in email. Thanks a million!

Mer

[msagara.livejournal.com]

Hell, I've been thinking about this for a couple of months now, but I'm only writing it out now because msagara said she wanted to read it.

And I'm very happy that you wrote it, and that I got to read it -- I'm sorry it took a little while to get caught up.

I think kradical's suggestions are great. You can work to deadlines that you impose in whatever way works for you (the person who asked you for the birthday present 14 months hence, for instance -- and it would be a great present (I did a book that way for my spouse, and then found a hand-binder, who bound it in cloth covers & made a small slipcase for it. Umm. Just a though <g>).

Given how much we approach things from opposite angles, I have to admit that I get deadline hives <wry g>. I hate them. I work very very hard to be as far away from them as I possibly can -- because I have this terrible background fear that goes like this: But what if it isn't READY?

I've been thinking about the other things you've said vis a vis literary dialogue, and community in general, and read a post that lori pointed me to, which speaks more to the communities and less to the fiction, in as much as they can be separated.

But I had to poke my head up and ask: You said you have 4 novels waiting in the queue? (the to be written queue)

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

And I'm very happy that you wrote it, and that I got to read it -- I'm sorry it took a little while to get caught up.

No problem! (Sorry I took a while to respond, BTW -- was away from the puter for the weekend.)

I think kradical's suggestions are great. You can work to deadlines that you impose in whatever way works for you (the person who asked you for the birthday present 14 months hence, for instance -- and it would be a great present (I did a book that way for my spouse, and then found a hand-binder, who bound it in cloth covers & made a small slipcase for it. Umm. Just a though ).

That's a great thought! Plus I could get one made for myself, and look at it looking all booky for encouragement in the whole trying to revise and sell process. :)

Given how much we approach things from opposite angles, I have to admit that I get deadline hives . I hate them. I work very very hard to be as far away from them as I possibly can -- because I have this terrible background fear that goes like this: But what if it isn't READY?

*nods* I get that. I should be more like that, but I'm not. I used to write my poems for class on the bus on the way to the class. Pothole = line break.

I've been thinking about the other things you've said vis a vis literary dialogue, and community in general, and read a post that lori pointed me to, which speaks more to the communities and less to the fiction, in as much as they can be separated.

Interesting! Is the pointer in your fanfic post comments? I'd like to read it.

But I had to poke my head up and ask: You said you have 4 novels waiting in the queue? (the to be written queue)

Three, I think. Broken Glass Slippers is the most recent conception but the one I plan to write first, since it's got the most complete outline and being based on fairy tales, however radically altered, makes it a bit closer to my fanfic comfort zone.

Quick Bright Things is an urban fantasy set in modern day Dublin (mostly). I still like the concept, but I never did come up with a satsifactory second half of the book, and I have the feeling the alternating first person point of view is going to annoy people who aren't me. Plus it's got BDSM in it, though in the wake of Kushiel's Dart maybe that isn't the barrier to mainstream publication that I thought it was.

Meanwhile (working title) is an SF story about the rebellion of sentient answering machines, the religious fundamentalists who love them, and the problem of first generation immigrants having assimilated children. That's the oldest of them and therefore the one which suffers most from vague handwaving in place of plot. It could probably be made workable if I took a book on structure in one hand and a red pencil in the other. But in some ways it's the most ambitious so I think it can wait.

And the fourth one that I don't exactly count started as a dream about dancing mosaic lizards and their fall from the hive mind-as-Eden. cadhla convinced me there was a story in it, but the more of the worldbuilding I did the further back I had to start the story to get it all in. Not sure if that's going to turn out to be a short story with a hell of a lot of background that nobody but me ever sees, a series of short stories in the same universe, or maybe a YA novel. (It's got a coming-of-age protagonist, albeit a non-human one). However I am *way* intimidated by trying to write a sufficiently alien, yet sympathetic, POV.

[nikitangel.livejournal.com]

Hi there - I just friended you and thought I should leave a comment. I liked what you said in jennyo's post about losing the meta. I agree wholeheartedly. I guess we must be lucky to have had the experiences we have!

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Thanks, and welcome! I guess we are lucky. I feel like it, anyway.

[astridaria.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad that you wrote this. I don't know how you get to that place where you don't need to know that someone is going to read in order for you to write (or how Kafka, dying, could have really asked that all of his unpublished manuscripts be buried with him). Romantic notions tell us that it isn't supposed to matter -- and I too am sick of the "Only write for yourself" edict. To me, writing is about loneliness and the need to break out of it (otherwise, why not just keep these stories in our heads) -- and if all it did was plunge me back in that solitary space, I'd have no motivation to do it.

I think that's what interests me about poets after Petrarch -- the knowing that the person you're writing to isn't there, but this almost religious belief that your writing will be read and circulated.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Thanks! What interesting thoughts. I feel all connected to neuroticswriters through the ages now. *grin*

Seriously, well said.