Tonight's Angel
Jan. 21st, 2004 10:01 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
That? Pretty much rocked. I am impressed with DB as a director. He didn't do the self-indulgent thing at all. The look and feel and pacing was right -- and Angel spent practically the whole episode in darkness, confirming TBQ's call that Angel would be ambivilent at best about taking advantage of the necrotempered glass benefits.
I can so see Angel lashing out at hearing the "grey" thing yet again -- god knows that's how I reacted whenever they said "champion" -- and responding by wanting to take it back to black and white by maximum force, since not only does he kinda have a point, but that's often his impulse under pressure. I liked the throw away dialogue -- sci fi death ray -- and the sound effect of it being distant. I thought "the next billing cycle" was a bit over the top, though. We get it.
The Spike/Lindsay introduction was well done. Not the most original premise -- how many fics start with them meeting in a bar? Especially with a stripper named Sunshine. But it makes sense and Spike's reaction was so Spike, it worked. And I bought that Spike, who has no baseline for Lindsay, would not necessarily pick up on the ring of untruth, especially since he *was* skeptical. I actually gasped at the introduction of Doyle's name. And I adored the other differences between Spike and early Angel -- him scolding the victim for being an idiot. I love that Spike does not get off on the worship of the helpless and would rather they stop being helpless. But I so wanted to see Angel up on a roof making fun of him. Because sometimes I'm three.
I wasn't thrilled with Lindsay's sudden descent into meta with the analysis of Spike's changing motivations, partly because it smacked a bit too much of Telling Us What The Thing is instead of letting us get it from what's shown, partly because I am So Done With That Debate, but mostly for the same reason I didn't like Eve's assumption of intimate knowledge of Angel. Hello, you just met. I liked Spike calling him on it though.
Is every apartment in the Angelverse painted that blue? I swear I thought he was at Wesley's place. I don't honestly see why being a hero requires a spartan lifestyle or an empty bed, though. Bruce Wayne seemed to do okay.
Angel's fever dreams, while not large with the subtle, really worked well: as sheer entertainment, as what he would logically fear, and as a nice counterpoint to "Angel's retarded fantasy" of last season. The family he missed gathering with that same oversimplified approval around Spike instead of him. Parts I particularly liked: Angel burning with the Chosen special effect, as if he has no choice to turn into Spike if Spike, so to speak, turns into him. Fred hearing the ocean in his emptiness, a nice subtle reference to Connor, who would otherwise have been a glaring omission from the parade of horrors. Him in dorky clothes as the mailman, referring back to to the cautionary tale of Number Five. And for some reason I was really charmed by the soul as goldfish, and not just for being a tiny Willow shoutout.
I like the way they handled the Buffy thing too, considering the constraints of no SMG. They turned the fact that they had to use old sound footage into a plus, emphasizing Angel's fear that Spike is taking not only his future but in some ways his past too. And my slashy heart was amused by how unfazed Angel is to wake and find Spike fucking in his bed, at least until he finds out who. The bed looked awfully large and empty when he woke for real.
Plus I was impressed with how much everyone sounded like themselves. As everyone who's ever played in a low-probability fanficverse knows, that's the key to putting it over the top. And Fred's little "you probably should have had them removed a long time ago" was really very Fred. Lorne as Honkytonk was weirdly convincing. Even Dream Wes sounded like himself when he's Determined to Do the Necessary Thing.
And not that it was in the dream ballet, but I adored Gunn's confused half-apology for his heckling dream self. It was very deft.
I thought Spike explaining himself -- or not -- to Wes and Gunn was very convincing, both in terms of sounding like the Spike I know and love and in terms of dangling the implication and letting us impute the motivations we can believe ourselves. I'm still hoping for more better revelations about his state of mind at some point, but I'd far rather have less than more of the wrong thing. And I liked his point about the inside view. Though I'm not sure really why it *can't* be changed from the inside, albeit I agree that they aren't making much of a showing as yet. Spike's disinterested outsider observations are usually right, but I'm not sure this one is -- or if it turns out to be, where the hell they're going to go next. I don't want to lose that aspect of his character, but neither do I want him to be proved right if that means calling everything since Home a mistake to be undone rather than built on.
I wasn't quite as convinced by Wes and Gunn offering him a job. Not bothering tired!Angel with a non-crisis and going to check it out, sure. Wondering why Spike ever left if this is what he wanted to do, sure. The hint of turf possessiveness, absolutely. But actively recruiting Spike to come back without Angel's okay and then dealing with the fallout of Angel's reaction seems shortsighted in a way that Wes at least is not generally prone to. Not that Gunn is, but since he's changed so much I'm more willing to give the free pass. I did buy, and enjoyed, the funk it sent them into though. It made sense for their characters -- and it's nice to see them working as a team again -- and it also was nice continuity with the Yoko Factor.
I'm assuming Spike knew that "just helping the helpless," was Angel's slogan. If he did I love it -- it's snarky on so many levels, rubbing in that he's taken over the mission, that Angel's lost it, and that Angel himself is helpless. But I also love that Spike will jump to to save Angel, and as long as he's being all-knowing anyway, that Lindsay knows that will get to Spike when nothing else will. It's canon, I tell you.
Eve, as usual, was meh. I saw no chemistry even when Lindsay was being all hot and dommy and tousled, though that might have been deliberate since she was looking past him to the box. And fuck if I can make sense of this plan. Why two creatures and not just the big one to start with? Why have Eve be so clumsy as to announce that she's part of the dream, and change her clothes after Fred's seen them instead of just when she went in to see Angel? Did they want the gang to suspect Eve, or is she just being stupid for plot convenience playhouse? (And does Fred memorize everybody's jewelry collection?) I assume Spike rescuing Angel was to further demoralize Angel, but... oh, well. Presumably this will be further explained in subsequent episodes. And hey, maybe she'll die.
Her last line, sowing dissention in the ranks, was very her and well delivered for what it was, but if I were Angel that would not be enough to distract me from some fairly damning circumstantial evidence. I might look internally too, but I wouldn't stop looking at her.
Speaking of which? Previews yay! God only knows with their marketing department anything's possible and maybe the 100th episode is about them playing Scrabble, but so far I only see good things to come.
Oh, and is it just me or did Harmony look really different? Good, but different.
Mer
I can so see Angel lashing out at hearing the "grey" thing yet again -- god knows that's how I reacted whenever they said "champion" -- and responding by wanting to take it back to black and white by maximum force, since not only does he kinda have a point, but that's often his impulse under pressure. I liked the throw away dialogue -- sci fi death ray -- and the sound effect of it being distant. I thought "the next billing cycle" was a bit over the top, though. We get it.
The Spike/Lindsay introduction was well done. Not the most original premise -- how many fics start with them meeting in a bar? Especially with a stripper named Sunshine. But it makes sense and Spike's reaction was so Spike, it worked. And I bought that Spike, who has no baseline for Lindsay, would not necessarily pick up on the ring of untruth, especially since he *was* skeptical. I actually gasped at the introduction of Doyle's name. And I adored the other differences between Spike and early Angel -- him scolding the victim for being an idiot. I love that Spike does not get off on the worship of the helpless and would rather they stop being helpless. But I so wanted to see Angel up on a roof making fun of him. Because sometimes I'm three.
I wasn't thrilled with Lindsay's sudden descent into meta with the analysis of Spike's changing motivations, partly because it smacked a bit too much of Telling Us What The Thing is instead of letting us get it from what's shown, partly because I am So Done With That Debate, but mostly for the same reason I didn't like Eve's assumption of intimate knowledge of Angel. Hello, you just met. I liked Spike calling him on it though.
Is every apartment in the Angelverse painted that blue? I swear I thought he was at Wesley's place. I don't honestly see why being a hero requires a spartan lifestyle or an empty bed, though. Bruce Wayne seemed to do okay.
Angel's fever dreams, while not large with the subtle, really worked well: as sheer entertainment, as what he would logically fear, and as a nice counterpoint to "Angel's retarded fantasy" of last season. The family he missed gathering with that same oversimplified approval around Spike instead of him. Parts I particularly liked: Angel burning with the Chosen special effect, as if he has no choice to turn into Spike if Spike, so to speak, turns into him. Fred hearing the ocean in his emptiness, a nice subtle reference to Connor, who would otherwise have been a glaring omission from the parade of horrors. Him in dorky clothes as the mailman, referring back to to the cautionary tale of Number Five. And for some reason I was really charmed by the soul as goldfish, and not just for being a tiny Willow shoutout.
I like the way they handled the Buffy thing too, considering the constraints of no SMG. They turned the fact that they had to use old sound footage into a plus, emphasizing Angel's fear that Spike is taking not only his future but in some ways his past too. And my slashy heart was amused by how unfazed Angel is to wake and find Spike fucking in his bed, at least until he finds out who. The bed looked awfully large and empty when he woke for real.
Plus I was impressed with how much everyone sounded like themselves. As everyone who's ever played in a low-probability fanficverse knows, that's the key to putting it over the top. And Fred's little "you probably should have had them removed a long time ago" was really very Fred. Lorne as Honkytonk was weirdly convincing. Even Dream Wes sounded like himself when he's Determined to Do the Necessary Thing.
And not that it was in the dream ballet, but I adored Gunn's confused half-apology for his heckling dream self. It was very deft.
I thought Spike explaining himself -- or not -- to Wes and Gunn was very convincing, both in terms of sounding like the Spike I know and love and in terms of dangling the implication and letting us impute the motivations we can believe ourselves. I'm still hoping for more better revelations about his state of mind at some point, but I'd far rather have less than more of the wrong thing. And I liked his point about the inside view. Though I'm not sure really why it *can't* be changed from the inside, albeit I agree that they aren't making much of a showing as yet. Spike's disinterested outsider observations are usually right, but I'm not sure this one is -- or if it turns out to be, where the hell they're going to go next. I don't want to lose that aspect of his character, but neither do I want him to be proved right if that means calling everything since Home a mistake to be undone rather than built on.
I wasn't quite as convinced by Wes and Gunn offering him a job. Not bothering tired!Angel with a non-crisis and going to check it out, sure. Wondering why Spike ever left if this is what he wanted to do, sure. The hint of turf possessiveness, absolutely. But actively recruiting Spike to come back without Angel's okay and then dealing with the fallout of Angel's reaction seems shortsighted in a way that Wes at least is not generally prone to. Not that Gunn is, but since he's changed so much I'm more willing to give the free pass. I did buy, and enjoyed, the funk it sent them into though. It made sense for their characters -- and it's nice to see them working as a team again -- and it also was nice continuity with the Yoko Factor.
I'm assuming Spike knew that "just helping the helpless," was Angel's slogan. If he did I love it -- it's snarky on so many levels, rubbing in that he's taken over the mission, that Angel's lost it, and that Angel himself is helpless. But I also love that Spike will jump to to save Angel, and as long as he's being all-knowing anyway, that Lindsay knows that will get to Spike when nothing else will. It's canon, I tell you.
Eve, as usual, was meh. I saw no chemistry even when Lindsay was being all hot and dommy and tousled, though that might have been deliberate since she was looking past him to the box. And fuck if I can make sense of this plan. Why two creatures and not just the big one to start with? Why have Eve be so clumsy as to announce that she's part of the dream, and change her clothes after Fred's seen them instead of just when she went in to see Angel? Did they want the gang to suspect Eve, or is she just being stupid for plot convenience playhouse? (And does Fred memorize everybody's jewelry collection?) I assume Spike rescuing Angel was to further demoralize Angel, but... oh, well. Presumably this will be further explained in subsequent episodes. And hey, maybe she'll die.
Her last line, sowing dissention in the ranks, was very her and well delivered for what it was, but if I were Angel that would not be enough to distract me from some fairly damning circumstantial evidence. I might look internally too, but I wouldn't stop looking at her.
Speaking of which? Previews yay! God only knows with their marketing department anything's possible and maybe the 100th episode is about them playing Scrabble, but so far I only see good things to come.
Oh, and is it just me or did Harmony look really different? Good, but different.
Mer
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Date: 2004-01-22 04:03 am (UTC)BTW, Harmony had her hair in kind of ringlets tonight and I thought she looked VERY pretty. So did Fred in the last dream sequence.
I do love my girls purdy.
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Date: 2004-01-22 04:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-22 04:23 pm (UTC)Don't know though, LOL. Just a guess.
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Date: 2004-01-22 04:07 am (UTC)I don’t get the Plan either. I had the same question about the critters. I hope it doesn’t turn out to be one of those dopey plans where the planners need to be able to predict the reactions of the victims to a degree that would never work in real life. My suspicion is that Eve honestly didn’t expect Angel to be able to overcome the influence of the little critter. That’d explain having to come up with that lame line about the dream; she’s improvising. It doesn’t explain the clothing change, unless she got some kind of slime on her while attaching the big critter. It still doesn’t explain why not the big critter first.
And Fred noticed the earrings because she’s a girl, and girls are all obsessed with fashion. Didn’t you know?
Was it just my imagination, or was there a design on the wall of Lindsey’s bedroom that looked sorta like the tattoos on his chest? Maybe his apartment is also scry-blocked (or whatever).
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Date: 2004-01-22 04:25 am (UTC)If she didn't expect him to overcome the little critter, why did they have the bigger critter all ready and waiting and her eagerly anticipating it while caressing the box?
Oh, well.
I am clearly falling down on my earring memorizing responsiblities. :)
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Date: 2004-01-22 04:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-22 04:56 am (UTC)Re: surfing from friendslist
Date: 2004-01-22 02:56 pm (UTC)Hmmm, maybe that's it. If they started with Mama when Angel was in bed, the gang would get worried and come to check on him. But if they started with Junior, which could be hidden under clothes, then he'd be there to tell them he just needed some rest and... no that doesn't work. They'd still notice and check on him if he were gone too long. And to buy time before they did, it'd be just as easy for Eve to fake a phone message from Angel saying he's taking a mental health day as to go through all that. Oh, well.
I agree Angel should have panic buttons etc., but considering it's the internal threat he's afraid of, I can understand why he thinks that wouldn't help and might prefer his privacy. I do wish he'd *lock his fucking door*, though. If anything this time he gets a pass for being too disoriented to think of it, but Eve wandering in and out is a perennial grievance of mine too.
Mer
Re: surfing from friendslist
Date: 2004-01-22 05:08 pm (UTC)Sorry, what were we talking about? :)
I suspect it was a running joke on Buffy. I know it became a running joke in one of my RPGs vis a vis the Angel gang at the Hyperion.
Wes was giving Angel a lot of unreadable looks. Denisof is great at that -- clearly significant, but interpretable as significant of any number of different things.
Mer
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Date: 2004-01-22 04:23 am (UTC)Harmony did look different--altered hair-do, at least. Very flattering, she looked lovely.
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Date: 2004-01-22 04:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-22 04:33 am (UTC)Poor JM on the other hand seems to be under some sort of eye-ensmallening spell.
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Date: 2004-01-22 04:34 am (UTC)So did I. And at the appropriation of Doyle's job, I said aloud to the screen "Oh my god. You bastard."
(In appreciation, you understand.)
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Date: 2004-01-22 05:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-22 04:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-22 05:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-22 04:50 am (UTC)Snerk!
I thought Harm changed her hair and lightened up on the pancake a bit -- her face seemed narrower but her body seemed curvy enough in the bargirl outfit (someone on TV with a belly curve!). And I thought Fred had a photographic memory, that explained the earrings to me.
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Date: 2004-01-22 04:55 am (UTC)Mer
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Date: 2004-01-22 06:27 am (UTC)The Doctor: ...One more thing. Your name.
Romana: What about my name?
The Doctor: It's too long. By the time I've called out, "Look out... " What's your name?
Romana: [slowly] Romanadvoratrelundar.
The Doctor: By the time I've called that out, you could be dead. I'll call you "Romana".
Romana: I don't like "Romana".
The Doctor: It's either "Romana" or "Fred".
Romana: All right, call me "Fred".
The Doctor: Good. Come on, Romana.
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Date: 2004-01-22 03:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-22 06:11 am (UTC)There's a real interesting question in that as it relates to Spike from S5-7 though, isn't it. Wasn't he the evil thing that tried to change from the inside? Does he feel like he could do it enough on his own, or that he needed someone else to give him a soul first? Does that relate or compare in anyway to the MoG trying to take over and control W&H?
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Date: 2004-01-22 03:07 pm (UTC)Mer
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Date: 2004-01-22 06:24 am (UTC)Fred hearing the ocean in his emptiness, a nice subtle reference to Connor, who would otherwise have been a glaring omission from the parade of horrors.
Ooooh. I didn't catch this. Thanks. :)
Also, heeee to the Angel being unphased by Spike happening to be fucking in his bed. So. Canon.
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Date: 2004-01-22 03:04 pm (UTC)Mer
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Date: 2004-01-22 06:31 am (UTC)Oh, beautiful. I didn't get that right away. Yes. Thank you for that.
Fred hearing the ocean in his emptiness, a nice subtle reference to Connor, who would otherwise have been a glaring omission from the parade of horrors.
"You killed Junior" wasn't a bad reference either. And honestly, he has no other reason to BE this empty except for his loss of Connor.
Him in dorky clothes as the mailman, referring back to to the cautionary tale of Number Five. And for some reason I was really charmed by the soul as goldfish, and not just for being a tiny Willow shoutout.
And the heart walnut was from Cinco too.
And the goldfish line? "I kill my goldfish". Buffy reference re his soul...but I've no idea what the fuck it's supposed to mean. lol
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Date: 2004-01-22 03:01 pm (UTC)I totally missed "you killed Junior" as a Connor reference. D'oh! Thanks. And I forgot the heart walnut, so thanks again. And you're welcome. :)
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Date: 2004-01-22 07:10 am (UTC)Except for the whole dark avenger and killing humans part...
Great write-up, btw.
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Date: 2004-01-22 02:57 pm (UTC)Mer
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Date: 2004-01-22 10:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-22 02:49 pm (UTC)Mer
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Date: 2004-01-22 11:05 am (UTC)2. My general reaction to this episode is "The Lindsay Show, Also Starring Spike. With guest star Angel." Not that Angel's bits weren't gripping and intriguing, but whoever decided to have Marsters and Kane work together should get a medal. Indeed, Joss gets another medal of his own for bringing back Kane in the first place.
3. Who has Angel's soul. Oh no! Bear has Angel's soul. This can't be!
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Date: 2004-01-22 02:48 pm (UTC)New writer too? Wow.
Lindsay and Spike do have interesting chemistry.
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Date: 2004-01-22 12:39 pm (UTC)I don't think you've lost that aspect: Spike's just not a disinterested observer about anything to do with Angel, and therefore not a disinterested observer about what the gang is doing at Wolfram & Hart.
The Spike-cam aspect of that scene was interesting: Wes and Gunn looked kind of creepy.
At the moment I'm assuming the plan for this episode wasn't actually to send Angel into an irreversible coma -- one of the gang would have checked on him eventually -- but to make sure he felt helpless and dispirited and was rescued by *Spike*. Since nearly everything they've been doing has been aimed at building up the Angel/Spike rivalry, and since guessing that Spike would indeed go back to help out Angel doesn't require a huge leap. And if it failed and someone else found Angel first, they still got dispirited Angel--clearly not an undesirable outcome.
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Date: 2004-01-22 02:46 pm (UTC)That, for me, would be functionally losing it. His other disinterested observations were of Angel and Buffy in the "you'll never be friends" speech, so his Angel issues weren't too crippling then, and of the Scooby gang and Buffy up through season six, when he was already in love with her but still seeing her and how she relates to her friends clearly and calling them on their bullshit. By disinterested I mean "when he's not DIRECTLY concerned," not "when he doesn't have strong feelings about any of the participants", because that pretty much means this character trait would never come into play in practice, at least not about anyone but one-off characters.
Excellent point on the Spike cam!
I agree with your deductions about the plan, but if that's all they wanted to do I don't get why they needed to implicate Eve to the extent that they did.
Mer
Nice work, luv.
Date: 2004-01-28 11:34 pm (UTC)I like the way they handled the Buffy thing too, considering the constraints of no SMG. They turned the fact that they had to use old sound footage into a plus, emphasizing Angel's fear that Spike is taking not only his future but in some ways his past too.
Oh yeah. Made me cringe for another reason, of course: like nothing else in the ep, this scene signifies it's never gonna happen: this is Angel's nightmare.
And my slashy heart was amused by how unfazed Angel is to wake and find Spike fucking in his bed, at least until he finds out who. The bed looked awfully large and empty when he woke for real.
Heh. Unfortunately, a threesome ain't never gonna happen either. Pity, I could live with that. *g*
Plus I was impressed with how much everyone sounded like themselves.
Good point. Wasn't too far off-- except for the last scene; that one gave me the chills.
I don't want to lose that aspect of his character, but neither do I want him to be proved right if that means calling everything since Home a mistake to be undone rather than built on.
This may be one of the rifts in fandom
I am one of those people who think it's all a big mistake... an understandable one, of course, but nevertheless a great mistake; for even if we don't attempt to answer the question of changing a system from within (something that can, and has indeed, worked throughout history), their whole existence at W & H has nevertheless been built on a tangled web:
Once the threads are unraveled-- and they will be in the end if you look at Wesley who's wondering, at Fred who's confused, hell, at Angel who's falling apart bit by bit--, the chances of salvaging the idea of helping the helpless on a grand scale are fairly slim.
I'm mixing metaphors terribly again, but to me, the foundation is too flawed. If you think there's some sturdy material they could all build their future with, you're spot-on, but where to build it on? It's just sand-- when the flood comes, the building will crumble.
But actively recruiting Spike to come back without Angel's okay and then dealing with the fallout of Angel's reaction seems shortsighted in a way that Wes at least is not generally prone to. Not that Gunn is, but since he's changed so much I'm more willing to give the free pass. I did buy, and enjoyed, the funk it sent them into though. It made sense for their characters -- and it's nice to see them working as a team again -- and it also was nice continuity with the Yoko Factor.
Gunn is a mystery to me at this point; but Wes? These days, Wes is treading very carefully with Angel. Remember the confusion and disappointment in his face during Lineage, the bewildered looks during Harm's Way? Now, for a moment, he's in charge again-- easy to fall back into patterns even older than he realises.
I'm assuming Spike knew that "just helping the helpless," was Angel's slogan. If he did I love it -- it's snarky on so many levels, rubbing in that he's taken over the mission, that Angel's lost it, and that Angel himself is helpless. But I also love that Spike will jump to to save Angel, and as long as he's being all-knowing anyway, that Lindsay knows that will get to Spike when nothing else will. It's canon, I tell you.
Their relationship? Hell, yes! Eternal love? Hardly. & ;-)
(And does Fred memorize everybody's jewelry collection?)
(But shhh, this is the new version of her, All!Around!Genius!Brain-- now complete with Memory 5.10!)
& ;-)
Re: Nice work, luv.
Date: 2004-01-29 01:35 am (UTC)And don't lose heart yet -- Angel's nightmares come true with fair frequency. :)
I agree that it was a mistake, as it was done. But I don't think a total do-over is good narrative. There's gonna be a flood and it's gonna be a doozy (I'm not spoiled, I just know this show) with pain a plenty, but for me not to feel that this was a waste of my watching time, when the waters recede there needs to be something there they can build on that they didn't have at the end of last year.
Not eternal love. Eternal... something. Lust, irritation, projection, hatred, connection, reluctant sympathy. :) Kinda like Buffy/Faith.
Mer
Re: Nice work, luv.
Date: 2004-01-29 01:48 am (UTC)Not eternal love. Eternal... something. Lust, irritation, projection, hatred, connection, reluctant sympathy. :) Kinda like Buffy/Faith.
*g* Fair enough.
I've seen too little *sympathy* to buy into the whole S/A thing so far, and compared to the lust and obsession we've seen Spike harbour for Buffy and Dru, his sexual connection to Angel just doesn't seem equally hot and...present, for lack of a better term. I have no trouble believing there were hot'n heavy times in the past, and if we take Buffy and Dru and whomever out of the equation, there might be an S/A in the future, but I'm just not convinced right now...
But of course, others don't see the sensuality and sparkles and *worlds* of possibilites between Buffy and Faith and say it's all intense, sure, but nothing sexual or, God beware, remotely relationshippy. & ;-)
Re: Nice work, luv.
Date: 2004-01-29 04:52 am (UTC)Re: Nice work, luv.
And no, I haven't seen Damage yet; the download places ain't that fast, regrettably. Plus? Dipshit J.D. student is blocking the room with my download computer these days... Grr. Argh.
I'll tell you soon as I've watched it!!!
M.